User talk:Franken Kesey/Zatoichi (3.5e NPC)
Please only mechanical edit if you know who I'm talking about :whats with all the weird numbers? bab higher than hd? sword cane deals 4d8? is he adding dex to damage instead of str? where's all the AC coming from? 10 dex + 5 insight (mentioned) is 25. where is 32 coming from? whats with the odd attack sequence? secondary attack with sword is only 4 lower than highest, and knife is only 2 lower? base saves are 4/10/5? are the martial arts feats the ones from modern? and how is the crit 16-20? thats just weird. the numbers just make no sense to me, and they don't conform to standard norms. and does he have a racial + 18 to listen? since max ranks + wis= 17.--NameViolation 17:51, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Seriously mate, I know nothing about standards - please make it standard were needed with the below exceptions. ::*He adds his dex to damage using the weapon finesses feat. ::*If you add dodge bonus it would be 29 (had deleted a few things - forgot to reduce) - right? ::*What is a normal attack sequence? ::*Martial arts feats are from modern, but I cannot find the page, so its from my memory. ::*Listen is twice the max because he is blind - so I had to compensate somehow. Is it to high? ::Thanks mate, good day and good luck. --Franken Kesey 18:09, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::: Weapon finesse adds dex to hit, not damage. The dodge says vs attacks of opportunity, so it doesn't apply to normal attacks? thats 25. Assuming he has a 12 bab (the best for his HD it would be 12/7/2 + modifiers. Not sure on other peoples opinions on mixing modern and 3.5. doesn't Always work good. Just because he's blind doesn't let him spend extra ranks into listen. maybe a "racial + 10" could work. I'm gonna fix up some numbers, to make things standard, If you don't mind. --NameViolation 18:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::so i fixed some numbers, but he still has 5 extra feats, and probabally also need exotic weapon prof. for the weapon. Now if he had class levels in, oh say fighter, those issues could be reasolved with out just giving him a bunch of bonus feats. also i didn't check for synergy bonuses. but its a start to making this standard. i think the cr might be too high tho.--NameViolation 18:48, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::did some more fixing, took away feats he didn't meet pre reqs for. i don't think Martial disciple works unless you have classes from ToB. all tho taking the feat to get a stance and using shadow hand to add dex to damage may work. --NameViolation 19:02, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::is he supposed to have class levels? if so you should mention that some where. like at the top i.e. tenken 12. also listing his class abilities would be helpful. hopefully i got you started in the right direction. if you need any more help, feel free to ask. I'll do what i can--NameViolation 19:46, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :ok, now its worse. is he 12th or 13th level? HOW IS HE TAKING EYES IN THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD? HE DOESN'T HAVE THE 19 WISDOM!!!! also, its pointless with uncanny dodge. AND YOU NEED POWER ATTACK AND CLEAVE FOR GREAT CLEAVE!! and I don't think he can use martial discipline. I'll try and fix it up again. also, how is his dex 30? hes a human(?), even stating with 18, +3 from levels, and a +6 item (that he doesn't have) would make 27 dex. If you're gonna do it, do it right. I'm not tryin to be a jerk, but whats the point of making it and not using any of the rules?--NameViolation 21:06, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::the damage for his weapons includes dex instead of str now. you could make it dex and a half to damage for + 15's instead of +10's, and since he can spend 12 rounds hasted, you could lose the speed ability (since they don't stack). no need for the extra enchantment imho. --NameViolation 21:13, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry just did a mass edit had to delete your edits - but will be readded. Many of the feats were remove in the last edit, including Eyes on back of head, and great cleave. Your right about keeping to the rules - its just I don't know them. Thanks for the help Also what are your thoughts on the knife stats? I was just shooting in the dark - when I created it. Thanks for the help--Franken Kesey 21:25, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::No prob. I'm kind a rules-nazi. I'll look at this later and see if it needs more touching up. I normally don't do much editing around here, but this article was in serious need of some helpin.--NameViolation 21:27, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::(Gah, edit conflicted. Original complaint retained below) Just build him like you would a normal character. Start him as a level 1 whatever, give him feats and skill points, and then keep adding levels and their associated benefits until you get to a level you want. Then look up his wealth amount, and buy that much gear / benefits for him and list it. - TarkisFlux 21:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Name Violation, I thought you didn't want those feats - why did you re-add them? The skills are higher than before - why? I just need a reason, don't have a problem with it. thanks --Franken Kesey 21:49, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::: After i realized he had class levels in tenken, i left the feats that were bonus from tenken marked with a (b). and the n i realized he COuld take power attack and cleave to have great cleave. So he has 6 character feats and 2 bonus feats from tenken to pick, in addition to Dodge, mobility, and weapon finesse. as of current edition that means 3 more feats to pick. you could do power attack/cleave/great cleave, or spring attack, unarmed strike and deflect arrows. or maybe a few other combo's I'm not thinking of. but now comes the issue of stats. his stats are WAY high for an NPC. The elite array is: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. The nonelite array is: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. This has 27, 20, 15, 13, 13, 12 (plus 3 stat points to spend wdich i assume is currently in dex making it 30). so yeah... stuff. also he *should* have appropriate gear for his level. eeven if its tattered and looks like crap, it could be good gear. As for the skills, I just removed improper coding and used what was there, except for tumble (i nerfed it from 45). I'll go over the numbers tonight and make sure it all adds up right. I'll help you make this legit if it kills me--NameViolation 22:12, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::Stats have been greatly nerfed. Because of his class level, he gets 5 attacks each round - and with his attack of opper he also gets that on opponents rounds. So, are the cleaves realy usfull? Noting his weakness with range defence, would it be better for him to have deflect arrows, or something in that ball park? Is there an imbalance with the gear? The sword is sweet and all, but that's about all he has. ::::::Thats the plan... thanks --Franken Kesey 22:44, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::::If you have access to Book of Exalted Deeds you could take Vow of Poverty or one of the associated feats to keep his item abilities up without giving him any actual gear beyond the sword. AFAIK, it's not OGL material and we don't have it posted here. If you don't have access to it, you can just write in story reasons for him to have stat boosts or abilities equivalent to the gear that you're not buying for him with the rest of his wealth by level. You do have a bit of leeway with NPCs in that respect, you just have to spell it out instead of giving them nonsensical stats. - TarkisFlux 00:19, February 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I might know somebody with that book - I'll have to check. What does AFAIK mean? defiantly will work on fluff. Thanks --Franken Kesey 00:50, February 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::: i thought about vow of poverty to. *technically* i think the sword cane would be to rich (your only allowed a simple weapon) I think most DM's would over look that for him, and I would let the +3(?) enhancement granted to the weapon apply. Its a really flavorful npc. But how much could we publish? vow of poverty give a bunch of bonus exalted feats.--NameViolation 01:40, February 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::So what does the vow do? What do you mean publish - is it that flavorful? ::::::::I mean put out there for every one to see. also, what about Hear the unseen for a feat, its from complete adenturer, you need blind fight. theres one more I'm looking for, which is blindsense or blind sight. Unless we can explain why he has the abilitys really good. just saying "because he's blind" doesnt help. tho, you could consider it a flaw and get another feat. and make the +2dex, -2int ability a trait.--NameViolation 02:29, February 22, 2010 (UTC) Blindsight, 5-Ft. Radius General Prerequisites Base attack bonus +4, Blind-Fight, Wisdom 19. Benefit Using senses such as acute hearing and sensitivity to vibrations, you can detect the location of opponents who are no more than 5 feet away from you. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant, though you cannot discern incorporeal beings. (Except for the decreased range, this feat is identical to the blindsight special ability.) we need to up his wisdom.--NameViolation 02:46, February 22, 2010 (UTC) Fixed the blind sight(see page) - using a few flaws. What are the stats for Hear the unseen? pre reqs for Hear the unseen are listen 5 ranks, blind fight. lets you make listen checks to pinpoint eneys even when you cant see them. Huh? Are you making an NPC or a monster here? NPCs follow all the standard character creation rules. You don't get to just stick random stats in an NPC like you can do with a monster. He needs levels and all of the special abilities that they bring, and a full equipment list, and so on. And if anything is out of standard progression, it needs to be explained. Things like "He gets +4 to his dex and this bonus feat for having completed some god's quest" (and those then those probably count against his equipment ammount in some way) aren't forbidden, but they're uncommon and need to be pointed out. So how many levels of what class does this guy have? How did he get his stats to where they are? How is he qualifying for feats he has that he doesn't meet the prereqs for? Etc. - TarkisFlux 21:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :I'm trying to make a NPC - but did not know the rules. Do NPC's really get that many skill points? How is the Dex increase explanation. Many of the feats had been removed - In my mass edit. Yet they were re-added a few minutes after words - would it be better if they were re-removed? As a side note: being non-standard is quit common for me, due to the fact that I don't know the standards. As seen in my Vroons (3.5e Race), [[Viveka Spectre (3.5e Prestige Class), and now this NPC. I think a better standards page, would greatly help me and other new users, along with minimising your personal editing. Just a suggestion, thanks --Franken Kesey 22:01, February 21, 2010 (UTC) ::You make an NPC the same you make a regular character, and then if you add on anything outside of the standard rules you make notes of it. If you are uncertain how to make a regular character, I'm going to have to refer you to your PHB, since the closest I can find in our SRD is the multi-class characters section which doesn't give me quite what I want. - TarkisFlux 22:08, February 21, 2010 (UTC) :::Thanks, I know how to make a regular character - don't worry. So the only difference bettween an NPC and a players character is that the DM controls it? Thanks --Franken Kesey 22:16, February 21, 2010 (UTC) yes, npc's are basically dm characters. Once you know the system its easier. Npc's get as many skill points as anyone else of the class (havent currently checked to see if the numbers are right). a few good rules of thumb to remember are: *bab comes in 1 of 3 forms. equal to HD(fighter types), 3/4 your # of HD(rogue, monk, cleric, ect) or Half # of hd (wizard/sorcs) *Saves come in 2 forms, "good" and "poor". good starts at 2 ends at 12 (like a fighters fort save), poor starts at 0 and ends at 6 (like a fighters will save) * most numbers can be determined hy # of hd (gained from levels or monster race), for example at 13th level a Tenken has a 13 bab, and base saves of 4/8/4. *npc's, like pc's, get a stat point every 4th level and a feat every 3 levels (not counting bonus feats from classes and items). hope i explained things ok. If you ever need a hand, just send me a message. i normally check the wiki every few hours, mainly the Recent changes. --NameViolation 22:24, February 21, 2010 (UTC) Gear what should he have? and why is the sword cane dealing 4d8 damage? exotic, one handed d8 18-20x2 (15-20 if he takes improved crit) sound good? since katana has a str 13 pre req we cant use that...(we could make it a +1 vorpal sword cane and i think he'd be broke :P)--NameViolation 01:58, February 22, 2010 (UTC) :Is the dmg to low? improved crit is a great idea (will replace greater cleave).Noting that it would be his sole item of value, I think the vorpal sword is a good idea. What are its stats? But don't take my opinion, the voices have stopped. Thanks for the ideas --Franken Kesey 02:08, February 22, 2010 (UTC) vorpal, Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. but it would be ALL his money i think. not the *best* option, but interesting. Otherwise I think he just needs some stat boosters. i would love to say "he read some domes Of +2 dex or wisdom, but the blind thing... books on tape? :P --NameViolation 02:46, February 22, 2010 (UTC)